Jian Ghomeshi is a multi-talented musical artist and writer born in London, England and now based in Toronto, Canada. He is best known as a lead singer, drummer, and songwriter in the multi-platinum selling folk-rock group, Moxy Früvous. He blends his passion for humor and politics with beautiful melodies and poignant personal lyrics that make his wildly unique solo live performances a mix of storytelling troubadour and pop/rock spectacular. Most recently, Jian has emerged as an acclaimed young producer (Dar Williams, Martina Sorbara) and a widely read editorial columnist. Jian takes pride in his Iranian heritage as well as his Canadian citizenship. He holds degrees in Political Science and History.

Paul Iwancio (PI) - The main focus of my interview is songwriting. I’m wondering if there are songs you’re writing now that would not have come out in Moxy Früvous?

Jian Ghomeshi (JG) - Excellent question. It's perhaps ironic that Moxy Früvous prides itself on being a band of 4 songwriters - democratic, very consensual, a collective. It’s almost been the bane of our career that we’ve been as eclectic as we have in that we have never been able to be pigeonholed. Are we a rock band? Are we a jazz band? And that comes from a place of ostensibly allowing ourselves creative freedom. But the truth of the matter is there are certain songs for a variety of reasons that I would never be able to bring to the band. I am learning that more now in retrospect, now that I am doing the solo thing, in two ways. In one way, when you’re operating in a band like Früvous, where it’s a musical give and take, a negotiation at times, a creative negotiation, I think there’s a certain degree of self-censorship that happens within the creative process, on the basis of what one anticipates the other guys are going to say. So you kind of go, “I’d really like to go from the major to the minor here, which I do in so many of my songs, like the Beatles thing, but I know Murray’s going to call me on it, so I’m not going to do that. I mean that’s literally the way… or I’ve got this song about how there’s more cutbacks, but I know this guy in the band is sick of me writing these political songs. That kind of thing. So that’s the one way. I think the second way, though, is I write very personal songs. I write from a very personal perspective. I always have, but I’m finding now that there is a creative voice in my solo incarnation for songs that I certainly couldn’t bring to Früvous. I mean that just I wouldn’t feel as comfortable bringing.

PI - Could you give an example of one of those songs?

JG - Yeah. “Lousy Boy” is a very personal song about me and my gender issues. It’s not that the Früvous guys would necessarily say “You can’t play that song. Are you kidding?” But it’s more just the notion of me singing that with the three guys on stage…There’s almost a certain detachment that one has to have when you’re presenting yourselves as a collective, you know? It doesn’t mean you don’t sing about important things. It doesn’t mean that it can’t be personal, but in many ways you’re speaking as “we.” Even in some of our songs it will be “we” or we’ll use an example. Whereas a song like “Lousy Boy” is very much Jian singing about Jian.

PI - It’s interesting that you bring up “Lousy Boy” because it is one of my favorites on the disk. I related to it very strongly, mainly because of my gender issues, and to this day, I feel I tread between masculine and feminine lines. And now you’ve already answered the question I was going to ask you - is it autobiographical in any way?

JG - Entirely. I mean, my sister did put me in a dress. She did have a friend named Leslie. That’s just me speaking the truth. It’s almost; one of the things I have to get used to is a whole new level of revealing myself.

PI - Do you have any certain regimen of songwriting - do you set aside time to write or do you just wait for inspiration?

JG - I always feel like I don’t employ enough of my time for songwriting.

PI - You’re wearing a lot of hats.

JG - I am wearing a lot of hats, and yet, I am not convinced that if I were actually sitting there with a guitar ten hours a day, or a piano, that I would write more. It seems to me that my writing is very reactive - not reactionary but reactive. It’s really a cathartic process for me, so again, my songs are in some way a codependent relationship. This is me getting peppered sprayed at Quebec City. That’s where I find my expression. Usually in crisis, usually something dark…I have a song I don’t really know what the title is yet, but it’s called September 11th that I will be playing tonight.

PI - Well since you mentioned the cathartic thing, I will ask this question, don’t take offense, but I just wonder that since you say a lot of your songs come out of this cathartic need, if you’re writing out of catharsis, does it really matter if anyone then hears the song?

JG - It’s a good question. I think part of the cathartic process is writing it for others to hear it. I mean the hope with all this is that I somehow empower other people. So I am out here on this tour, and I am speaking. If “Lousy Boy” can make some kid out there who is having issues about not being macho enough go “Hey, he gets to play in front of a bunch of people, and he’s not that macho…” then I win.

PI - Let’s talk about politics now. A lot of your songs are political. How do you walk that fine line between artistic and being preachy in a political kind of song?

JG - Well I think that Früvous has actually been a good training ground for not proselytizing, because we always had this agenda of thinking that our message would be stronger if we didn’t always hit people over the head with it. So we have a song, like the Rush Limbaugh song for example. So instead of singing “This man is dangerous; he really wrong; you’ve got to stay away from him; don’t listen to him; boycott him a lot!” We sing this song about how he’s the greatest man in America. That’s so absurd, and goes to such a degree that the audience ultimately gets it. So you know, I try and walk the line. At the same time, I think that there are times when things should be called what they are. When I need to have the courage to stand up and say, “This is what I am singing,” and hopefully do it in an engaging enough lyrical and musical way that I don’t just sound like the old union organizer, singing some song that people are saying “Oh God, when’s he going to be done?” Yeah, the political guy cliché. But again, that’s been another line for me to cross in my solo incarnation because people are coming to the shows and in some places a little surprised that the show is going to be quite political. But that’s what I do and that’s who I am, and I have the liberty to do that more again outside of the concerns of worrying about what the other band members are thinking of me.

PI - Früvous was pretty famous for writing good humorous songs. Do you have any tips or tricks for writing a good humorous song?

JG - It’s a good question. Let me see if I can synthesize. First of all, language is really important, like funny words. You know, the name of a funny cheese. Sometimes you just say a word, or use the word “zeitgeist” if you can, when you want to describe a political gem, say “zeitgeist.” And outlandish characters. The more fantastical you can get is usually the better. Something that will seem absolutely stupid. Like currently we’ve been writing this thing, on a totally separate project, musical theatre, like a musical. And Mike and I came up with the original idea, and we’ve all contributed some songs too, about fish. A run away mackerel. I mean, he’s like a fish. He’s like Nyeahh…He wants to be human and he’s always getting pissed off. He walks into a bar and into a copy place. He has a fedora on, like he’s a fish, a mackerel. He walked up to counter and he’s like [uses falsetto voice] nyaahhh, give me a coffee. The person says, “Yes Sir, would you like a…” and then sees that he’s a fish, and he’s like “What the f—k are you looking at? You’ve never seen a mackerel before?”

PI - Is this going to be a film project?

JG - No this is potentially for a musical, but he’s got this Uncle Turnpike who is like…he’d like to turn the fish again, he’s like...one way to get up the corporate ladder and societies…cod stocks in the Indian Ocean…he turns against his own fish…it’s a very melodramatic story and he sees his ex-girlfriend at one point and he realized the folly of what he’s done and that he’s become a human in the negative sense. But anyway, my whole point is it’s so fantastical. Get up and start singing about a fish wearing a fedora who talks and all of a sudden people are like, “This guy is zany; I like this.”

PI - The other thing our songwriters are always looking for is working on their melody writing. Where do you find your melody inspiration? Or are you usually a word guy first?

JG - I am totally a melody guy. I really don’t enjoy writing lyrics. It’s very hard for me. I have always got a melody. I don’t know why. I don’t know if it is why, some Beatles, a Stevie Wonder thing, I am just overcome with melodies. But I never have any issues with melody. Lyrics are more difficult for me. Almost every song I’ve ever written, I’ve written the melody first and let the lyrics come.

PI - Usually a capella, or at an instrument?

JG - I have a melody in my head and I put chords to it.

PI - One of the problems I have, and I am similar to you, I have those pop influences, and I have a steel trap mind too for melodies, and I’ll start writing a melody and then I’ll realize, Oh No! That’s “In My Life” from the Beatles, or it’s this or that. Do you come up past that?

JG - Yeah. I would soldier through. What I mean is, I think the most dangerous thing, what you’ve just described, and I‘ve been there too, is to start to edit or become self conscious at the moment of creation. It’s so incredibly important to let it happen, wherever it goes. Review it later and decide that it sounds too much like “In My Life.” I always felt like when I was writing for many years I would go to a pretty major chord and I’d be like, “I can’t do that. That’s not really cool; I’ve got to do something…” It was only the last two or three years “I Will Hold On,” “Sad Girl Pride,” these songs where I kind of went, “You know what? It’s okay to have a pretty melody. Piss off!” It’s very simple. There’s nothing wrong with that. It doesn’t have to be cheesy.

PI - I won’t keep you any longer. Give me five good reasons I should move to Canada.

JG - You want serious reasons? Or you want funny reasons?

PI - Both.

JG - Well, water. Americans have been trying to steal our water for a long time. Healthcare. Quebec. A really cool place. Hmmm…trying to avoid my own Canadian clichés. I was going to say “good hockey” but I will say, “Good Beer.” If you like good beer, this country can be a real drag to tour in. Your country I’m talking about. And really good donut shops. There’s a real proliferation of donuts. You guys don’t really have the donut shops we have.

PI - Just a quick closer. Do you have any advice to impart to our songwriters in our group?